Listen to the post-event discussion HERE.
Rusty: I'm not trying to defend the WSB guy, but I think in his case he thought he was being cute and funny.
Amber: Well, too bad that he wasn't.
I'm with you, Rusty. When it comes to the evil empire? Eff em.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town, Creative Loafing devotes a cover story to local bloggers.
Know your media. Know the difference.
UPDATE: And Dave of Earthling has jumped into the fray. Come on over Dave! The pool's warm from all the pee!
32 comments:
Remember in the movie version of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas when Duke and his attorney are twisted on ether and get kicked out of the Debbie Reynolds concert? That's twice in the past week something has reminded me of that scene.
Don't get too excited about the CL story. Andisheh took great pains to point out that most of the Atlanta blogosphere sucks. Not sure why that was necessary. It's all very high school esque.
I give credit where credit is due. At least Creative Loafing trying. Yes, like a toddler they will make mistakes but I feel that they do "get it".
They've had a great blog, Blurbex, in their Tampa edition for some time now.
They might be trying, and yeah that's great 'n' all, but it doesn't mean they get a free pass to not be called on their bullshit.
Agreed. But in the same manner, I won't give blogs a pass either because they are part of our gang. I agree with Andy that there's a lot of crap out there.
Even as someone whose blog can be quite personal in the exact manner Andy knocks on in his article, I have to agree. There is a lot of good blogging out there that he didn't address, but he's right that there's a lot of bad blogging out there too. I'm responsible for some of it, even. I don't see the problem with pointing that out. However, I think Grayson made a valid point that the article really glossed over all the other interesting things coming out of the Atlanta and Georgia blogospheres beyond the 5 profiled blogs in particular. There was a lot of good that was ignored, which left the impression that the choices are limited to a dim over-personal blogosphere, and these 5 good blogs. And not much else.
Fair point.
Not even mentioning Amani is particularly grievous. But it is a paper. Space is limited. Editorial decisions have to be made.
Hey, it's one of our advantages that we have limitless space and the only editors we have are ourselves.
Look I'm not defending the article or CL. I just think the reaction is bit overly harsh.
Some things.
What's "bullshit" about pointing out that most local blogs are lousy?
How many local blogs tell you anything of significance that you couldn't read somewhere else sooner and better? Most of them? Or just some of them?
How many "personal" blogs transcend Dear Diary-ness to offer thoughtful introspection? Most, or just some?
How many news-themed blogs offer information (news or commentary) that didn't appear somewhere else first? Most or some?
I'm not anti-blogging. I've been blogging since 1999 (hence my silly domain name, andy2000.org). I had an Atlanta-themed podcast (My'Lanta) in 2005. I understand, appreciate, and am enthusiastic about the possibilities of Internet media.
Nevertheless, there's good blogs and there's bad blogs. There are blogs I like and there are blogs I don't like. Is it "high school" of me to write that? Perhaps. But not quite as "high school" as pretending that new media is great simply because it's new.
Making lists is not journalism Andy. It's just pretty bullshit, and it has nothing to do with the state of social media community in Atlanta. You're a snotty little dipshit reporter who can't tell a story without layers of baby snot blown all over his silly copy, to disguise the fact that there was simply nothing newsworthy in that cover story.
Suddenly I'm looking forward to Saturday just a bit more.
Feel the love, people!
I agree with you that the reaction seems a bit overly harsh. I think it was by and large an excellent profile piece and really I find this to be just one quibble I had after reading it. I think it would have been nice to see a paragraph or two devoted to mentioning some of the ways in which the metro ATL blogosphere in general really shone over the last year. I could give examples, but maybe that's fodder for a follow-up piece...
Agreed. But in the same manner, I won't give blogs a pass either because they are part of our gang.
Of course not. And I'm not sure who/where is asking you to.
I agree with Andy that there's a lot of crap out there.
Well, it's the same old mantra: 90% of everything is crap. Why is this news?
Andisheh, this goes back to a conversation we've had at SoCon, PodCamp, and many other events: who defines what constitutes value?
That's the both good and bad thing about blogging. You might think reading about someone's lunch is crap and a waste of time - someone else might think the exact opposite. Neither opinion is more or less valid than the other. We each decide what has value for us, and why.
Sure, a lot of blogs are crappy, in my opinion. But we know what opinions are like, right? And frankly I don't see why it's necessary to get in that little dig of negativity in an otherwise good article. It's not a pissing contest.
But not quite as "high school" as pretending that new media is great simply because it's new.
Who is doing this? Don't make me use the "strawman" word! I HATE that word!
Amber, I think we are just looking at the elephant from different angles.
Feel the baby snot!!! I hope I'm channeling Pete Doherty AND Liam Galleger for my appearance on June 7th. This town needs to be shook the fuck UP.
Amber, I think we are just looking at the elephant from different angles.
Fair enough! Would you be willing to explain/clarify your angle?
(This is not meant to be snarky. It's difficult to convey tone in text, but I am honestly asking.)
What's going on Saturday?
Amber, I think what I'm saying is that when I first read the piece I didn't have the same visceral reaction some did. I noted the little negative dig but moved onto the meat.
And when I talk about CL getting it, what I'm trying to say is no matter what your opinion of the content, editorial decisions or style, at least by dedicating a cover story to the new media, CL at least shows an understanding of the impact in the community.
Now could it have been written differently? Absolutely. It would have been nice to see a full length piece including Leonard Witt and Amani and the fact that some Georgia blogs may have actually steered legislation this year.
But here's my thinking. CL is trying. Obviously Cox doesn't even give a shit. If we continue to roast those who are tentatively trying to feel us out over things that are factually accurate but just not written the way we would like them, pretty soon they will stop coming around at all.
If that's the reception they receive every time, why would they?
It's a two-way street. I'm not going to lay out the red carpet for anyone and pat them on the head just because they're "trying." If someone is interested in a conversation, then that naturally involves talking and listening. Furthermore, I'm mainly concerned w/ impact, not intentions.
Grayson: Saturday is Doug's going-away party.
Well I guess we disagree. I think an acknowledgment of a major print media source in town is a pretty big impact. It can't all happen at once.
But no, they don't get a pass just because they are trying. If CL allowed some of the slipshod shit that the AJC has pulled in the last year, I hope I am the first to call them on it.
think an acknowledgment of a major print media source in town is a pretty big impact.
I agree it's a big impact. My point is, if they are truly interested in the way media is shifting and changing, then they need to understand that everything is going in the direction of two-way conversation. Dialouge. Engaging. Transparency.
Which means that, they put out a story, and they get legitimate criticisms. The next step? Engage those critics, listen to them, hear what they have to say, and talk with them. And work to make appropriate changes in the future, where necessary.
Agreed. Agreed. And agreed. Which reminds me. Thanks Andisheh for coming by!
As I said, there's always room for a follow-up piece...
If we want them to highlight some of the other bright spots in the blogosphere that they missed, we will probably have more success couching it as constructive criticism rather than going on attack. Just my take.
Forgot to add inre Andy. Something I doubt we will ever see Steve Riley or Marlon Manuel EVER do.
>>The next step? Engage those critics, listen to them, hear what they have to say, and talk with them. And work to make appropriate changes in the future, where necessary.
For example, next time I'll be sure to wipe the baby snot of the silly copy.
Andy, you know, Grayson might have a legitimate reason for feeling the way she does. Engaging her to find out why is one option.
Just to clarify: Grayson sent me an e-mail this morning, which she also posted on her blog. I engaged her on her blog.
I made my feelings about Andy's piece perfectly clear. And he's free to blow any amount of baby snot my way.
I'm quite sure, like any good southern family, we'll all show up at Doug's party Sat. and be perfectly sugary polite to one another... then go home, sit around and talk shit about everyone who was there 'til we all pass out from sheer lipflap exhaustion. Or carpal tunnel... whichever comes first.
Then again, we could all just give up on any pretense of propriety and just go total trailer park and beat the crap our of each other! Hmmm... I should invite some of my family members along.
I'm quite sure, like any good southern family, we'll all show up at Doug's party Sat. and be perfectly sugary polite to one another...
Eh, speak for yourself. I won't punch anybody in the face or anything, because c'mon, this thing Sat. night is for Doug and it would be supremely shitty to distract from the reason for the gathering. BUT, also, I hate passive-aggressive shit, so I'm not going to make nicey-nice w/ anyone who's been a jerk to me, either. If the subject comes up, I will address it and confront whomever's bringing it up.
This thread is absolutely cracking me up. Andy2000 writes for a publication and writes what he thinks (they pay him to do that) about the atl - blogosphere and everyone who generally stands behind anyone who blogs "what they think" is getting mad at him for doing it.
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